Elsa Vogts - Museologist

Babylonstoren’s museologist, Elsa Vogts, joins us in the House of Shadows for the latest instalment of BabylonSTORIES. Elsa is responsible for the visitor experience at each of the farm’s museums - the Story of Wine, Soetmelksvlei and the Byzantium.  

Ever wondered what a museologist does? In this episode, Elsa discusses her passion for sensory storytelling and shares insights into the creative practices that can help visitors learn by tickling the senses. You’ll also gain fascinating insights into the museum experiences at our sister estates, including The Newt in Somerset and The Story of Emily.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

At Babylon Stouren, we love to feed curious minds. That's why we have Elsa Forts on our team, a museologist that creates and curates memorable learning experiences. Elsa Forts, welcome to Babylon Stories. And thank you for joining me in the House of Shadows. Thank you, Bianca, for having me. You are Babylon Stouren's resident museologist, and it's not the most common occupation to have. Did five-year-old little Elsa think, I want to hang out in museums one day? Or how did this come about?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Well, funny story about that. I've always loved art. Art has been my first love from a really young age. And I think when I was about eight or nine, there was an art competition in Stalembosch. And I dreamt of working for Disney. That was my goal in life, was to become an animator and to craft stories for Disney. And I entered this art competition illustrating this, and I think I won, actually ended up winning a prize, which is quite surreal. But I think I've always had this dream of making some kind of visual experiential magic for people to enjoy. And I think that's it started from a very young age.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

For those of us who are not that familiar with um what a museologist does, um, just in a nutshell, what what is you are you a curator, a museum curator?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

So uh curation is one aspect of museology. Essentially, museology is the study of museum. So it comes actually from a an academic um angle. I like to call my muse myself a museologist because it sounds funny. Sounds very musical. Sounds musical. Um but in essence I like to describe what I do as uh crafting stories. So taking whatever subject we are working with at the time and using visuals, sound, all manner of sensory engagement to tell a story to visitors of every age and every background.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

People could wonder, but why do we have a museologist? Why does Babylon Sturin have a museologist? So how did you find your way to Babylon Stuarin via Disneyland?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Disneyland. Um, so it was sort of fortuitous in 2021 when I joined uh joined Babylon's Turin. At that stage, the story of wine was just about to open.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Okay, just briefly for those of us who don't know the story of wine, what is that?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So the story of wine was the first museum that opened uh on Babylon Stouren. It tells the story of wine, both in the South African context and the global context, but moreover, it's really an experiential space where visitors can enjoy everything about wine, from the history to the science to the enjoyment thereof. I think what makes the story of wine quite special is that it um it doesn't become too academic. I think wine is a subject that can alienate a lot of people very quickly. Um, and it really is a space that uh Etienne Harnecombe designed principally, that really it just delights the senses and it really it engages with a with what can be quite an um academic subject in a very fun and interesting way.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Well it certainly doesn't have to be a a wine drinker to enjoy this museum. I know kids love it because it's very interactive and even for people who are not particularly interested in wine, it's a super interesting experience, I find. So that's how you found your way to Babylon Stuarin. Exactly. And what came after that?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Um at that stage, Sutmarks Flay was just a twinkle in Babylon Stouren's eye, and that's actually why I started at Babylon's Touring was to develop and figure out what Sutmarks Flay will be.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Would become. So Sutmarks Fle opened last year. What is Sutmarksflay to those of us who haven't been fortunate enough to visit?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So Sutmarks Flay is a um an incredible living history farm experience. So the idea is to show visitors what life on a farm would have been like in terms of the way people did things by hand. So we really, really focus on teaching our visitors and letting them experience a different pace of life.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Okay, so it's set in 1896.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

1897.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

18, excuse me. Um 1897. Why exactly 1897?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So 1897 was a was an interesting inflection point in South African history. It was a time when this valley in particular was sort of growing out of a quite a dire period where phylloxera, which is a um a pest that struck all of our vineyards that came from Europe, this pest basically ravaged all the all the vineyards and the whole wine industry, which had been which had grown quite quite a bit by that point in time. So they had to recalibrate and figure out, you know, how are we going to make a living on this amazing fertile ground? Um, and then that's how our um soft fruit industry really started and took off.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

We like to call it an experience, not a living museum. But basically, if you take the shuttle from Barbie Lonsturen to Sidmarks Fle, you are traveling back roughly 130 years in time.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

It does feel that way, and I think we we try and approach Sidmarks Flay with this idea that we we don't want to make you feel like you're in a time capsule. We do want to transport you back in time with your feet firmly planted in the present so that you so that visitors are able to experience that magic of the craft that you're actually able to still practice today. It's not like those crafts disappeared and nobody really does them anymore.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

They still exist today, they're still practic practicing blacksmiths and exactly, and I think what's wonderful about Switmarks Flo is um, especially during COVID, uh handcraft, crocheting, even crocheting, knitting, embroidery, all of that almost um uh experienced a revival. Absolutely, and I think it's being practiced more and more because people are realizing the therapeutic value of handcraft. Um, so just to give people an idea, what does Sitnox Fay consist of? What buildings are there, what activities are there, and then we're gonna get towards the point of what the big challenges were in terms of recreating really to the finest detail.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

A late 19th century farmstead.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Exactly. So what visitors can expect is you um you get transported on a fantastic vehicle to um Sutmark's play, and there you will find a typical Cape Dutch farmyard circa 1897. So we've got um the manor house, um which is flanked by the the old stables, so it used to be the old stables, which is now the restaurant, and then the old cellar where they used to make wine, which is now a sort of a cabinet of curiosity museum space. And then we also have our working buildings, which consist of a sort of a wood workshop and a blacksmith and leather workshop. We've got a working um mole, water mole, water mole, yeah, which is amazing. We do distillation on the farm, we've got an amazing crawl with a whole number of interesting animals.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

We do mamput distillation.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

We distill a bit blitz, mostly exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

I understand that our Funkotianus, specifically the Yenengus flavour, is your favorite. Do you like to enjoy a little sip? It is such a drink here in the house of shadows with a beautiful background. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

On a hot day like this.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Beautiful spring day. You've got you created all these wonderful, historical, very well-researched, accurate interiors and and and facets of Sitmarks Flay, which we can talk about in greater detail. But what I think is very exhilarating for me and very surprising to visitors is that you also spent a lot of time and energy on creating very interactive, mindful, playful spaces for children because it is above all a wonderful family excursion, Sitmarks Play. So perhaps just uh you've got a play area behind the restaurant, but it's not your normal play area, it's got a few tricks up its sleeve.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Exactly. No, so we um we really trying with the play areas to bring in the story of Sitmarks Play and of the history, so to make, you know, not to put up just another jungle gym. So we um we have a sort of cows that you can milk. It's not milk that comes out, but water. So the whole idea is um that it becomes a sort of miniature version of a farmyard on the outside with lots of water and sand, and the idea is for them to really get stuck in and get dirty. Apologies to the parents.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

I think the parents are also happy to let their kids have some natural play space and they can sit and enjoy something wonderful from the from the old stables restaurant. Like you've also got a windmill with a with little water buckets, so it's it's it's very stimulating, I think, for kids.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

It is, and I think I think what's also important for a lot of parents um is that you know the kids really get to enjoy the outdoors, they're stimulated by nature and by play um rather than technology or anything else.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Another super incredible, impressive part of Sutmark's play is that within the what shall we call it the museum part, which is the old cellar, it's got a wonderful taxidermy section. Um, it's got a uh an Oxwagon which is kitted out as it would have been in 1897 for a family that would have trekked from this part of the land to, say, for example, the had what is called now the Hadmanus Coast. Yes, they would have, and it would probably probably have taken a month for them to get um over the Yemen Art or whatever route they took, and they had everything, everything, it's such a wonderful thing to see, like everything the family would have needed is strapped and tucked into this ox wagon. But then on the so it's quite a the cabinet of curiosities in the traditional sense of the word, and then on in the left wing, it's absolutely just um an unexpected, joyful play space for children.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Absolutely. Well, we had to put something in there for the kids, of course. Something indoors for when it rains, exactly. So that's that's the main broadcard. Um, the kids love that playhouse and a warning to the parents, you need to bargain on at least an hour for your kids to spend there. Um just because they get so immersed. I mean, I I think the the funnest part of that is the the trampoline bed, because most parents don't let their kids jump on their beds, and we wanted to make a bed that they can jump on.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

So just to give uh more of an idea, um, it's basically a miniature recreation of the manor house. The manor house, the farmhouse. Exactly. And down to the finest details, I must say there's a carpet that looks like one of the Persian carpets or one of the oriental carpets in the manor house that was handmade by an artisan in Cape Town. You have recreated the is it William Morris?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yes, wallpaper. Exactly. So we um asked an illustrator to illustrate the wallpaper with some hidden creatures and animals peeking out behind corners to really bring that sort of um Alice in Wonderland magic to the space.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

From uh real miniature animals, figurines to fantastical creatures that lounge in big old, they almost look like the old brandy barrels.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

And the kids can can can crawl in there and they can read a book or play a card.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Exactly. They can crawl in there and cosy up to our weird magical creatures. Like the one is a frog, and we've got some other reptile-looking alien. Alien. I think what makes Sutmarks Flay super special is that there's all these nooks and crannies and little bits and pieces that you discover over time, and you don't even get most people don't see everything in one visit, so you'll have to come back for another sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

I think we have to uh stress the fact that Sutmarks play is not a destination to attempt in three, four or less hours. Yeah, full day. Full day. Bobstone is a full day, and Sutmarks play is another full day. Exactly. To me, it was so interesting when I met you the first time. I assumed you came from um the position of being a lover of history, and you've uh you the very first time I met you said, no, I actually didn't really know much about his wasn't particularly interested in history, even. Um, your impetus into the uh world of museums was very much art.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Exactly, and I think that's what makes it a little bit different for me. And and because I also come from a design background, I am interested in all the subjects. Obviously, a museologist sometimes will get a, you know, you'll work on a project that is history-based, you might work on a project that is art-based, you get a project that is more science-based. So it's much more about taking each one of those subjects and applying a sort of strategic design, creative mind to it than necessarily being an expert in any specific subject. For Swit Mox Flyer had to do quite a bit of historical research because I'm not a historian.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yes, and you had you had access to a fantastic team of historians.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Incredible. So we had we have our own, um, we had a historian working on the project very closely with me. We consulted with a number of um specialists in especially uh Cape Dutch furniture. Um we had a um a heritage architect also consulting on the project, so we really drew on an amazing array of of real expert knowledge to make sure that the authenticity really comes through.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

They often marvel at how how does one person that it but it takes really a massive team years and years.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Exactly, and especially with a place like the Manor House, which is which is not really, it's not one of our more interactive experiences, it's more space that you just get to enjoy. But we rarely get a visitor that walks through the house that says, you know, that doesn't say, This looks exactly like my grandma's house on the farm in the Karoo. So we we really get that a lot that people people really connect with that space, and I think um our team that helped with the house especially um come from the film industry. They really they helped us to craft a space that was really um very special and visceral, and it's those tiny details that make all the difference.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Babylon Stiran is 15 years old this month.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Happy birthday to us!

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Yes, um, and in the past 15 years uh it has become basically the oldest sister in a sisterhood of estates around the world. So we have um the newt in Somerset and the story of Emily in Cornwall, Vinemaggio in Tuscany, um there is uh Wiffer Omstel Bouderay on the Omstel River just outside Amsterdam, and then Blow in Kierbooms, the think of her as the the little sister on the coast in beautiful Kierbooms Beach. Um most of the properties have um museum elements or several. Were you involved with any of the other museum experiences?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Um I've been very fortunate to visit uh the Newt to have a look at the museums that they've got on their property. Um and obviously the the latest one is the Roman villa, uh, which is a reconstruction of ruins that they found on the estate, um, which is quite magnificent. So they spent a number of years doing digging research, consulting with um archaeologists, um, and then crafting this museum experience from that, which is quite spectacular.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Um I was also very fortunate to to see it, and um, one can't actually do it justice in a verbal description. It has to be seen to be believed.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Exactly. Because it is just actually so un it is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

It is unbelievable, and also once again, the the the depth of the detail and and so on, but it was also hilarious. As one walks into one of the inner chambers, they had a mural and they had Kate, William, and Harry painted on the mural. That's an element of playfulness that I appreciate that you don't take yourself too seriously. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Um I think that's something that also comes through in all of the museums um that form part of the group. The character, the golden thread. The golden thread that comes through is definitely one of um quirk and humor without losing a sense of groundedness and authenticity, but to also not take yourself or the subject that you're working with too seriously.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

I know with most of the museum experiences because they invariably involve a bit of time travel, which is interesting. Actually, the story of Emily does the war rooms are phenomenal. Um, Roman Villa takes you back two, three thousand years and um only 130 years at Marx Flay, relatively short, short trip. But um, you tend to also use we you always have a lovely uh movie that people uh that visitors look at just to get them into the era, exactly set the scene, exactly, and you love to involve um little animal character.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Exactly. Animated characters are a big, form a big part of that. Maybe that's the way my Disney dream can come alive now. You've got the aristocrat at Switmarks Flow, you've got the Kimmer. So in all the films at the various museums, there features a sort of an animated character that that brings a playful element to the story, but also because we are dealing with a subject, um, oftentimes history can feel quite heavy. So it just lightens it, it can lighten the mood a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Especially, I think, um, and I must say, of all the wonderful museum experiences within the sister that I've uh been fortunate enough to visit, the war rooms at the Story of Emily in um Cornwall is I have not been to as many museums as you have, undoubtedly, but to me that was an absolutely incredible uh synergy of uh really dealing with the difficult, we're dealing with the Anglo-Bur War, it's a very difficult, uh very traumatic um part of history, and it's done so incredibly well with an extremely um sophisticated technological and artistic interpretation, technological support, and facilitating the whole experience on an emotional and intellectual level. It is absolutely next level. I have never experienced anything like that in my life. Um what I couldn't uh I was so overwhelmed by the by all of it, I can't remember what magical or creature you had as a as a as a little introduction. A guide.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Right. So at the at the story of Emily, um the introductory film features a Cornish Piskey, which is a mischievous, fairy-like character, exactly, that uh comes from Cornish folklore. So they wanted to also bring the local Cornish story into this very uh South African storytelling that that they that they engage with at the story of family. So that that was a way of bringing in some quirk in an otherwise quite a heavy, emotional, reflective museum experience.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Like all good sisters, I'm one of three and we love to share. And uh I'm the youngest, so I'm used to hand-me-downs. And even with our what I find really wonderful is within the sisterhood of estates there are traveling museum exhibits.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

So we are very excited to very soon open our own little Byzantium, Bayzantium in Afrikaans.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, to honor the bay, to honor the bay, the Bay Punny B or Bay in Afrikaans.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

And um this exhibition was actually um put up at the Chelsea Flower Show of 2023, and we are the inheritors of this fantastic space.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

So it was put up by the Newt in Somerset as their Chelsea exhibit. Exhibit. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

And then packed up and shipped and shipped to us. And now we've built our own little temple to the bees, which will be opening to visitors in the next short while.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, opening very soon. Just a wonderful ode to bees and their delicious work. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Their hard work. Exactly. And that's what makes it so interesting going from a very historical project to something that is much more scientific. You know, I learnt a lot about beekeeping from our entomologist Annay. So it it shows you how dynamic the process of storytelling in museums you know is. It's not it's not all it's not all old and dusty. I promise.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

It's not exactly it's not a dark and gloomy space. Exactly. I think once when we chatted you I asked you whether the story of wine was Barbinosturan's first museum and you thought about it for a second and then said well you actually think the garden here.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Exactly all depends on your understanding of what a museum is and what it does. So I really like to think about the word museum as a place where you learn something through objects and the objects can be living or can they can be static they can be human made. And I think the garden has such an interesting collection of plants. So museums can be either a static or dynamic. Exactly an experience of a collection or a collection of experiences.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Because of the very obvious and abundant beauty of Babylon Stuar and the gardens and so forth what are your favourite lesser known treasures or nooks and crannies in the garden or elements that really tell something tell a unique story that people might not necessarily see if they just do a quick visit?

SPEAKER_00 24:05

I think it all comes down to which season you're in. Because I really think that there are different parts of Babylon Storin that really come into their own rights and that show a tiny piece of magic as the seasons progress. As an example September each year there's an almond orchard on your way to Sidmount's Flay that becomes this white cloud perfume and driving through that is the most amazing experience. It lasts 10 seconds but it is just so magical and it lasts there's only say three weeks in the year where that actually happens. The same goes for a quiet morning walk through the Civya through the along the Clivia planting or in the clivia path at the sort of end of September if you manage to get it to yourself it is the most magic meditative experience that you can find.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yes four hoofed friend and they've got a wonderful menagerie of animals there. They do yes they do that that they've that that some have been born there.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

We've got exactly quite a number of animals at Sitmaxland some have who've been born there in the past year that we're so proud of amongst them is Cascade our little pecheron and then several lambs so it's been a it's been a wonderful journey to see sort of our animal family grow. And it's actually I think my favorite at this point in time is Hannah who is our for want of a better word Hanslamer. So she's a little sheep yes that trails behind whoever is her favorite person human person for the day.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And she's very very comfortable in the the the farmhouse I would 100% and she's like a little dog. It's a wonderful family feeling at Sitmarksflay between the the I must say I absolutely love visiting because the people of Sitmarksflay they really after having been there for I don't know a year and a half two years that they've been open and all the time that they've spent there before they opened um you can see that they've kind of stepped back in time and they are operating at a different pace and they are doing all these things that everybody will tell you is good for your your soul you know like needing bread and gardening and milling the flour with the watermill and working with animals and it shows you feel it when you are there they they are lovely people and they tell the story of Sutmark's flee so wonderfully.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Exactly I think it's a one obviously it's wonderful to get feedback about how beautiful the farm is and how you know visually stimulating everything is but I get I I'm so excited every time we get a review and people do not stop talking about the staff. I think the staff really makes such a massive difference to your experience both well at Babylon's tourin and at Sitmox Play and I think I'm I'm just so incredibly proud of that team that have taken you know they've really sort of made the owner that is very different to Babylon's tour. And it's and I think it's foreign to it's foreign to South Africans right it's not this is not a space that's um typical you get a lot of these sort of historical um recreations sort of craft villages in Europe and in the UK very new concept to South Africa and I really must praise the staff for they've really made it their own and they've and they've really sort of taken ownership and found their way of making it relevant to all the visitors that that cross their path.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

In a beautiful way and I think inspire a lot of people you know to start working with leather or to um interact with animals more. So helping them care for the animals is part of what children and adults do when they're there. Exactly. One of the things that I love about the Sutmarksflay experience is that we always kind of think of it as that sweet spot before the advent of rampant industrialization. So although the electric light bulb was probably burning somewhere on earth I mean suburbs or Cape Town wasn't electrified until a good 15 or 20 years later. It was a good 10 years before the first Model T Ford started rolling down Adele Street. So it's really the last of the uh ox cart and horsecart and you know the the the last of the candlelit the end of that era but still there was quite an amazing level of sophistication.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

If you look at the the cream separator machine which um dates from 1885 and the the wonderful um wallpaper that was uh came over on a steamship from from the UK and that was ordered from a catalogue those things existed so one tends to think that life then was very uh rudimentary which it was a lot more simple than what it is now and slower but there was a a a very nice level of sophistication to it 100% I think that's also the story that we try and tell in the in the old cellar with our cabinets of curiosity yeah it's endlessly fascinating to see you know the level of sophistication that went into an ox wagon which we we built a little model and exploded it to show all the different components that make up an ox wagon. And I mean this the Wellington was known as the Warmarket for the Valley of the Wagon Builders right so now there are three people left in the country who can fix and build a wagon. Exactly amongst others our team here at Sidmarks Flay so um it's really interesting the other model that I really enjoy is a is a model of a steamship that dates from 1897 that had refrigerated chambers. I mean how else would we get our fruit exported to Covent Garden? So it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

That would that also struck me because uh after the wine is obviously an easy export because it's bottled and it's uh it doesn't spoil and when it happened at just the right time for farmers uh in South Africa and further afield because they could um just when they started getting the big stone fruit um harvest they could actually export it yep because before that they had no refrigeration so it's interesting to see how every little um step forward with technology has an impact on the economy on the society on the work on the exact on the development of our society absolutely I think that's what yeah what makes Sudmarks play so special is you really get to experience that and I think what's also another aspect of Sudmarks play that um that a lot of our visitors don't know about is that you can actually come and do workshops.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yes so you get to really engage with those with our craftspeople and learn a new skill that sort of comes from that era that you can then apply and make something modern for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Babinosturin's been doing workshops for ages and since Sutmark's flay has opened up it's added a whole new perspective to workshops because they have this historical angle so all of the kind of more the cape cookery workshops the more traditional workshops the traditional handcrafts and so on how to cut up a springbook leg of um that kind of meatworking gets done there as well so um a lot of people don't realize that when you do a workshop at Sudmoxla you also get the whole Sutmoxla experience it's really a wonderful introduction to the farm.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It is exactly and I think I think what makes a workshop special is that you really get to deep dive into a specific subject so and obviously a lot of um people learn better by doing um you know and the more that you can be actively involved in something the more you take away from it I think that's where the the workshops are really a special way to really learn more about something highly specific and you also get to engage with an expert on the subject where you know they really tell you about the intricacies of embroidering a certain stitch or you know how to make the best custard for a milk tart or whatever whatever the subject may be. I think it really brings to life a whole nother layer of experience.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Absolutely and there's a very strong focus on intergenerational learning together for example I know what I love in the workshop so we do workshops at Sutmarksfle they do workshops but they also have a workshop which is in itself a place that a lot of people find very hard to leave because once they walk in there it's so fascinating you've got a blacksmith Dan Devonshire and you've got Ruan Ontong who's doing the the leather work and farness and some carpenters that are doing amazing carpentry and all the while restoring um ox wagons and horse carts and carriages and all kinds of things a fascinating space to be in.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Absolutely and every Saturday we also do the restoration of a wagon wheel so the amazing thing is there's so many people that contact us to say we need help restoring our old wagon and we then also use that as part of our demonstrations that we do on the farm.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Another thing that I absolutely love is I loved shopping in in 1897 the prices are current but the goods are incredible. You really find things there that you don't find in any other shop.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

There's just something about something handmade and amazing and we've really endeavoured to find um artisans and craftspeople that make really exceptional products by hand um nothing that you find in our shop is um is not made by mass produced so it's all authentic and and local as local as possible.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

I think what part of your job as a museal museologist is also your determining the relationship to the community.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I think in many cases people that were practicing regular jobs and doing these crafts on the side have now been able to turn them into full-time professions at Switmarks play with the the support of the of the workshop and exactly yeah by basically becoming exhibition crafters exactly having people watch them while they work yeah and I think it's an amazing amazing um talents and skills that they learn um a lot of a lot of the people at Sitmarks play a lot of the staff might have arrived doing working in one area and you know then they would say look but I'm really interested in learning more about the mill and then you know we really try and and move them around the the team at Sitmonks play is very good at sort of cross-disciplinary training so because a lot of yeah a lot of these skills um are not considered careers anymore and it's they it's finding like the the little piece of gold in the the people that have the the knowledge that can come and work then for them it's also fantastic because there's so few other spaces that value their skills. Exactly about it they are the most amazing thing and it's literally contagious so everybody that walks away from Sutmaxflay comes out of it feeling I've really just learnt something super cool that I wouldn't have learned anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

What was your biggest challenge establishing Sutmarksflay?

SPEAKER_00 36:36

What was the most difficult the trickiest aspect we can't just talk about all the good stuff we have to get real I think as with anything historical and I must say this with the provisor that I am not a historian um you know it's difficult to well with any museum project to find those bits that of the story that are most relevant you know that becomes very difficult and you know and you know there can't be one person that decides well this is the most interesting story to tell of that so that's why the teamwork was exceptionally important and working with a number of a number of people from the historians to the heritage advisors and the architects to come up with a way of sort of constructing and crafting this experience so that we really give a diverse set of experiences um sort of a collection of experiences if you will.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

I love that I found fascinating the um it's a very tactile experience and I love um textiles so I was particularly fascinated by the variety of embroideries and then to find out that well it's very difficult to date um fibre to date textiles unless there's a unless it's been in one family and there's a record of this being created by so and so in 1820 or whatever. So um there are very old pieces that are probably or most probably from the era and then there are recreations that were distressed by professionals from the film industry that are used to working in period dramas. So the level of dedication and commitment to recreating what would have been a farmhouse in in in 1897 is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Yeah it it's it was it was definitely a huge challenge but I think at the end of the day the end product came out so well and I think um it's all at the end of the day in the feedback from from our guests if they love every every part of the experience and um then you know we can we can pat ourselves on the back and say we've done a good good job.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

You've certainly done an excellent job you and the entire Sutmar's play team those that worked before the opening and those that are still there it's just a wonderful experience. I would love to ask you what next but I know our secret of Babylon Sturin is I know there it will always be a next there's always something there's always another little pocket of learning um a little book that opens with another story that flutters out magically and all the work that goes into making the magic happen. Yeah it's been wonderful having you here in the House of Shadows thank you for having me. Biggest pleasure um could I interest you in a um a quick sensory shootout like a rapid fire round of questions about Babylon Stuarin and Sutmarksflay you're free to choose any other okay happy favorite fragrance on the farm it's a bit of a toss up there between the freshly baked bread and freshly roasted coffee beans in the manor house at Sutmarksflay and at present the macadamia blossoms are phenomenal but uh another example of why you should come to Bobinosturin during every single season because they only bloom for three weeks and you cannot believe what you see and what you smell and if you're not here now then you miss it.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

You miss it until next year. Until next year yeah okay great so the bread and the and the macadamia blossoms um your favorite well macadamia blossoms are also a plant but your favorite bloom or your favorite plant your favorite definite the almond the almond blossoms on the way to Sidman's flay however I do um sitting in the house of shadows flevias or the Afrikaans words learly horses beautiful they've got an amazing charm to them and a very delicate scent but very delicate scent so favourite view I must say this isn't shabby this is not shabby um however if you also do get on uh the Sudmarks flee shuttle you will see the most magnificent view of Paul Rock the language monument and the Valmarkish filet the Valmarkus filet which is just amazing it's we there there's a reason why all the visitors ask the driver to stop for a photo yeah when you get there.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Well we have all these nuts that we've hardly we've had such a nice conversation we've hardly touched them so I asked you what was your favorite snack and that's why we have the nuts but what is your favorite product? We have so many good artisans on this farm it doesn't have to be an edible thing it could be from um what is your favorite product? What do you what have you bought the most?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

The most what do you eat or enjoy or gravitate to the most in terms of all the wonderful products I'm going to highlight something that is brand new that I just bought the other day which is the the chocolate and olive oil gelato which is with a hint of uh salt of salt which is just mind-boggling and delicious and you want to eat tums and tubs of it but it's it is brand new and it sounds delicious. It is absolutely amazing and as far as as lifestyle product goes I must uh say that becomes a very difficult choice the our uh book collection's incredible the book collection in the scented room is phenomenal amazing and of course all of our scented products are always lovely so and when you come through when you want to just get away from your laptop um I think people assume that if you work at Babylon store and you're forever like flicking through the gardening around the garden.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Meanwhile we're all stuck behind our our screens but when you do take a moment for yourself what is your favorite spot?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I have been really fortunate to with the Byzantium Byzantium that is opening very soon had the chance to sort of walk through the garden more than I normally would. So that's been a wonderful um treat is to walk along walk along the river to the Byzantium and back to my office.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Along this river with the cliyots with the cliby which is also in October also also in October yeah final question and I have to take you back to your your beloved shitnalks flame we have a lot of interesting animals there. We have our little miniature donkeys who've become Instagram sensations because they've been predicting the rugby fough and chalky um but we really do have an interesting um menagerie uh who would you say Hannah the Hans Langay?

SPEAKER_00 43:40

It's just absolutely adorable I do also have a soft spot for our um easels. Yes your donkeys odd little donkeys that the miniatures or the regular the the the larger size ones because they're uh they're not typical donkeys they're really come from an a time that was sort, you know, really unique. They're not they're not your typical long-eared donkeys. They're actually sort of and they but they always look like they're having a meeting. They've always like clumped together and clever donkeys from SARU. Clever donkeys. So they're so and they're just beautiful and odd looking and like zebras without the stripes.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

They are yeah. That is a story for another podcast which I intend to have as soon as I can. Thanks Elsa. Thanks Bianca it's been a pleasure. Thank you.